Tuesday, June 01, 2010

Re the Flotilla fiasco, here's my question

If the Flotilla incident had involved the United States, and the persons killed had been killed by American military personnel, would it be considered an international scandal?


Blogger Shira Salamone said...

My husband's an even bigger cynic than I--he says the US is just as much of a target for international condemnation and/or terrorist attacks as is Israel. Would the answer be the same if Canada was the accused?

Wed Jun 02, 10:46:00 AM 2010  
Anonymous Too Old to Jewschool Steve said...

Maybe not Russia or China. They seem to take a rather hard line on internal islamic extremism without too much global condemnation. See "Chechnya" and "uighers".

Wed Jun 02, 01:55:00 PM 2010  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Yes, funny thing about that. :(

Thu Jun 03, 12:10:00 PM 2010  
Anonymous Miami Al said...

Because it works on one, and not on the other.

Righteous indignation against Israel causes Israel to either make concessions or get defensive and look weak.

Righteous indignation against Russia or China makes you a target for spies/secret police or at least getting blocked on the Internet.

Russia and China do NOT take the bait.

NGOs that attack Israel from the inside get on the cover of Haaretz, NGOs that attack Russia from the inside get expelled from the country at best, or their personnel disappear at worse.

So better to target Israel than the bigger abusers.

Thu Jun 03, 01:20:00 PM 2010  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

Miami Al, you're even more cynical than my husband. Unfortunately, you're right, too.

Thu Jun 03, 01:40:00 PM 2010  
Anonymous Miami Al said...

Does nobody remember the first and second Chechnyan wars?

The west went WILD. The condemnations were AS bad as anything Israel sent. Russia ignored them and sent more troops. Eventually they went back to attacking Israel, because it was pointless.

Remember the Moscow Theater Hostage Crisis about 8 years back? They took hostages, Russia didn't negotiate, the stormed the place.

About 20% of the hostages died in the attempt. People went wild about Russia's actions.

But Russia ignored them, and people moved on.

Remember "Free Tibet?" About 15-20 years ago, Tibet became the leftwing cause. China ignored them, people moved on.

Pre-Oslo, occasionally people would emotionally support the Palestinian "revolution" and then the PLO would launch an attack, Israel would counter attack viciously, people would howl, Israel ignored them, and people moved on.

Israel doesn't get disproportionate pressure. However, Israel RESPONDS to the pressure, then whines when they get more of it.

If political pressure works, then expect more of it. If it doesn't work, you get less of it. People don't routinely bang their heads on the wall, they pick causes to "make a difference."

Thu Jun 03, 05:35:00 PM 2010  
Blogger Shira Salamone said...

In other words, since the State of Israel takes seriously the idea that the People Israel is supposed to be "or la-goyim, a light to the nations," and therefore, pays attention to criticism, the State gets more criticism. As the sarcastic version of the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished. :(

Fri Jun 04, 11:21:00 AM 2010  
Anonymous Miami Al said...

No, because Israel takes seriously this Jewish compulsion to be loved by people that don't love you.

Using rules of engagement that are in compliance with Geneva Conventions, Torah Law (ideally), and modern ethical sensibility is being a light unto nations.

Getting dragged into nonsense about giving up operational advantages because of bad publicity is simply a desire to be loved.

Countries have no friends, only interests, and it is time Israel realized that other countries may have an interest that is different from theirs and they need to accept that they won't be their friends.

Tue Jun 08, 03:15:00 PM 2010  

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